There's No Them Without Us

Marion Stamps was the chair of the Tranquility-Marksman Community Organization in the Cabrini-Green housing project in Chicago, where she lived for over 31 years, when this interview appeared. Jim Wallis spoke with her after the 1993 Gang Summit. - The Editors

Jim Wallis: What do you think was the significance of the summit?

Marion Stamps: The summit signified reunification of the black poor and oppressed communities, and it came from the bottom up instead of top down. If we are to unite our communities and stop the violence, it has to take place from the bottom up. Certainly the people at the summit represent the very fabric of the grassroots community.

It was very significant for the brothers to work out for themselves some of the problems they have created for the community. I think they are the only ones who have the solution.

I got a real good feeling from this summit. Having come from the old school, I'm clear that unity only comes out of struggle. When you're able to struggle on issues with brothers and sisters and come out unified, then you have the foundation you need to build a strong and lasting relationship.

Wallis: Can you comment on the role of women in the summit and how that came about?

Stamps: It was very clear from the onset there had not been any participation in leadership from sisters. There were no sisters sitting at the head of the table, there were no statements coming from sisters, there was no introduction of sisters participating in the summit. This is typical in any organization nowadays unless it is a women's organization.

I think it is very clear to us as women that we must constantly struggle for our rightful voice when it is a dominantly male situation. The brothers make a serious mistake when they do not include women in the planning and organizing as it relates to development in our communities. Because first of all, we are the ones who give life; without us, there would be no them. I'm sure they could use the same argument, but the bottom line is women of color hold up three-fourths of the world. We are not to be ignored or patronized.

How we perceive the situation is going to be different than the brothers because it has nothing to do with that macho piece. It has nothing to do with muscle. It has to do with brains and our hearts. A lot of times that's the excuse the brothers use not to do with us--that we're too easily manipulated, that we make decisions based on how we feel instead of what is politically correct.

When the sisters walked out of the meeting, and called a caucus among themselves, and put together a prepared statement, the brothers had to deal with us in relation to leadership. Then I was appointed to the National Advisory Board, I assume to represent the woman's point of view. But that is not my training.

My training is to determine who can get the job done, whether male or female. That's the kind of training that the brothers will have to have. There's a basic education that has to take place in terms of the history of struggle of black and poor people in this country.

A lot of those brothers don't have that history; they come from the street, but they don't come from struggle. The education that we learned in the civil rights movement must be integrated in the development of this peace summit.

The brothers had to do one thing before we even talked to them about peace. They first had to apologize to the African-American community--specifically the sisters and the babies--for all the pain and suffering they have caused us. We demanded they publicly apologize to us. Once they did that, the non-believers changed their perspective. The same kind of thing needs to be done on a national level.

Brothers and sisters have to understand this truce isn't about who has the biggest mob. It's about stopping the killing in our community. It's as simple as that.

Building Sisterhood Between Generations

Wallis: There was powerful bonding between some of the younger and older sisters at the summit. Tell us about that.

Stamps: Oh, that was powerful! One of the younger sisters said in the women's caucus that she did not know what it was like to be around stronger, positive black women. If she'd had a strong mother, she was almost sure that she would have taken a different role at the summit.

There was so much love in that room. We shared concrete experiences together, and it was obvious that the youngsters in that room needed to understand that we didn't get to where we are as elders without going through some hard times ourselves.

It was very clear that we have not put forth the effort to address the concerns of the young sisters. We made a commitment that would not happen again, and since we've been back in Chicago, we've met every Thursday as a collective group of black women, pulling in sisters from the streets and reading about Ruth and Esther in the Bible.

It's like a political education process we are going through. They can see the love is real and didn't start with us. We are able to love sisters because we know that from the inception of womanhood, sisters have loved us. We are strong because sisters loved us. You can understand if you know how these nations [gangs] function and the way they treat women, that there's going to be some changes, some serious changes.

Wallis: The changes were happening even in Kansas City. How did you feel about the response from the brothers to what you're doing?

Stamps: It was clear that a lot of those brothers weren't as chauvinistic as they appeared to have been. If anybody didn't think that the Lord was sanctioning what was going on, they don't have a relationship with God at all.

When the brothers came up at the altar call, I felt like God just came in and said, "Hey, I'm telling you that what you're doing is important. Just keep on doing what you're doing, and as long as you put me first, it's going to be all right. Don't worry about the non-believers. You just carry out my mission." That's the way I felt, and based on that, that's how I'm moving.

It's God that leads me. That's the message I want the brothers and sisters everywhere to understand. If you let God be the leader in your life, I don't care what you have done in the past. If God woke you up this morning, you can correct those mistakes.

Jim Wallis is editor-in-chief of Sojourners.